When the Pledge of Allegiance Becomes Idolatry: A Raw Conversation with Ryan Holladay

Hey family, what’s up?! It’s Beto and Mili here from Christian Podcast™. Wow… we just wrapped one of those episodes that leaves you sitting in silence afterward, chills all over, asking God, “Lord, search my heart right now.” We sat down with our brother Ryan Holladay (yep, the one we hiked Half Dome with—shoutout to that epic day in Yosemite!) and… let’s just say the Holy Spirit showed up in the studio.

If you haven’t listened yet, stop reading and go hit play. Seriously. But if you’re here for the recap and the heart behind it, let’s dive in.

Ryan Holladay is a passionate follower of Jesus, former pastor, and bold thinker who's all about authentic, Spirit-led faith over religious routines. He grew up immersed in ministry at Saddleback Church (son of teaching pastor Tom Holladay and nephew of Rick Warren), served in various roles there, and later planted and led Lower Manhattan Community Church in NYC for about a decade.

After moving to Costa Mesa, California, a few years ago, Ryan started a unique prayer group focused on listening to God—no curriculum, just real encounter with the Holy Spirit—and it's been transforming lives (including ours here at Christian Podcast™!). He's a family man, adventure lover (yes, he hiked Half Dome with us!), and isn't afraid to challenge comfortable Christianity on topics like idolatry, nationalism, and pursuing God's power today.

The Origin Story of a Different Kind of Prayer Group

Ryan shared how three years ago he and another couple left the typical “small group” model we all know: discussion questions, curriculum, 30 minutes of prayer requests, 3 minutes of actual prayer, and call it community. He called it straight: most small groups became group therapy + Bible trivia instead of encountering the living God.

So they started something radical: a group that only prays. No curriculum. No leader monologue. Just listening to God and speaking only what you hear Him say. And one of the first things God told them? “This group means nothing if it’s all white.”

Ouch. But yes, Lord.

They began praying for diversity—specifically the kind that mirrors the actual neighborhood: Asian, Latino, Anglo. And guess who God sent crashing through the door (literally with tamales in the rain)? Our girl Mili. 😂 (If you know the Thanksgiving tamales story, you know it was messy, painful, and perfectly God.)

The Bold Statement That Stopped Us Cold

Ryan dropped this line early and then circled back to it at the end:

“We don’t bow down anymore. What we do now is stand up, put our hand over our heart, and pledge allegiance to the United States. If that’s not idolatry, I don’t know what is.”

He wasn’t yelling or being dramatic. He said it calmly, like someone stating the sky is blue. And he backed it up: Old Testament test of loyalty = will you bow to the idol or to God? New Testament = you cannot serve two masters.

We’ve all done the Pledge a thousand times. In school. At ball games. Even in some church services (flags in the sanctuary, Pledge before worship starts). But when you put it next to Scripture… it hits different.

You can only pledge allegiance once. If you’ve already given it to a flag, a nation, a political identity… how much do you really have left to give King Jesus?

Religion vs. Relationship: Why We’re Afraid of God’s Power

Ryan went deep on why the American church edited two-thirds of Jesus’ mission statement out of existence:

Jesus sent His disciples to do three things:

1. Proclaim forgiveness of sins

2. Heal the sick

3. Cast out demons

We kept #1 (because we can do that with good theology and no supernatural risk). We ditched #2 and #3 because… well, those actually require the power of God. And we’re scared of that power.

We’d rather have a map (rules, doctrines, formulas) than a Guide (the Holy Spirit speaking moment by moment). We’d rather bow to something we can control than to a God who might ask us to do something wild.

The Divine Idea That Left Us Speechless

At the end, on our Belief-O-Meter, Ryan put both “Holy” and “Divine” on the same truth:

Jesus—fully God—emptied Himself, became fully human, and lived filled with the Holy Spirit, hearing the Father step by step. That’s the model. Not just to admire. To imitate.

And one day soon, God will pour out His Spirit on ALL flesh. Not just pastors. Not just the “anointed” ones. Every son and daughter will prophesy. The knowledge of the glory of the Lord will cover the earth like the waters cover the sea.

That’s not a distant dream. That’s the promise we’re living toward right now.

So… What Now?

We left the studio different. Quieter. More aware of the walls we’ve built—literal and spiritual. More hungry for the real power of God. More convinced that revival won’t look like another polished program. It’ll look like diverse people around a table, listening to the Spirit, healing the sick, casting out demons, and caring for the poor and the stranger.

And yeah, maybe it’ll look like some of us deciding we can’t pledge allegiance to any flag before we’ve bowed our knee to Jesus.

We love you, family. We’re in this with you. If this stirred something in you, drop a comment, share the episode, or better yet—start praying differently this week. Just sit in silence and ask, “God, what do You want to say?”

Because He’s speaking. And when we finally listen… everything changes.

— Beto & Mili

Christian Podcast™

Beyond Church. Just Jesus. 🔥

P.S. Go listen to the full episode. You’ll hear Mili’s tamales-in-the-rain story, Ryan’s Half Dome encouragement that got Beto to the top, and a whole lot more Holy Spirit fire. Available everywhere you get podcasts!